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Post by ViCtoria* on Oct 23, 2007 15:28:36 GMT -6
Disregarding whether it's a personal or judicial system that we employ to fulfil law, would any of you kill criminals? I wouldn't. They have the right to live and not me nor society has the power to leave them without this right. And as I said in my first post here, I would only kill someone if I got too wrapped up in my emotions If it was someone so closely related to me, I would take the actions on my own hands and not let the court decide. That's what I said at the beginning!
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 23, 2007 16:02:19 GMT -6
I'm against taking actions into "my own hands" over the courts, because we are much more likely to be mistaken and make a horrible mistake. I suppose if you caught them in the act, that might be something different, but still killing them on the spot could be very bad, what if they were hired by someone, and now we may never know who that someone is.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Oct 24, 2007 2:06:29 GMT -6
you are right elephant, LOLzz (sorry dunno ur name tats y)
what if some one has hired? but that hired one could also be punished right? coz he dared to do something bad for money....
any ways killing is not a good punishment at all...
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 24, 2007 11:34:58 GMT -6
you are right elephant, LOLzz (sorry dunno ur name tats y) what if some one has hired? but that hired one could also be punished right? coz he dared to do something bad for money.... any ways killing is not a good punishment at all... Of course the hired person should be punished, but if you take it into your own hands the person that hired the murderer will not be known and that person needs to be punished. Anyway I'll disagree with you that Capital Punishment isn't good, I believe that it works and is fair.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Oct 26, 2007 12:00:16 GMT -6
I once had ideas like you in this regard... but i thought some different ways of punishments would be more opt than current system of punishing...
"Please Read my post in 1 st page of this thread and comment on it"( i am afraid you may call it stupidity ;D ;D)
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 26, 2007 12:10:19 GMT -6
I may disagree with it to some degree, but I strongly support your belief in it. You've clearly thought strongly into it, looked at all angles and came to the conclusion of what you truely think is best for treating criminals.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Oct 28, 2007 5:11:36 GMT -6
I may disagree with it to some degree, but I strongly support your belief in it. You've clearly thought strongly into it, looked at all angles and came to the conclusion of what you truely think is best for treating criminals. Thanxx for ur support ... ;D ;D but what do u disagree about? i have to know the negative aspects you find in it too....
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 29, 2007 10:37:24 GMT -6
Well, the length of time in the prisons (should prison A be 3 - 12 months or 3 - 24 months, the little details like that which are just personal opinions) is something that can be argued bact and forth about what is right and so on. But first lets look at how I interpreted it, because I could have been wrong.
type A is small crimes that are commited by someone who has reached the end of their rope and tried to cut some illegal corners to help themselves or their family. (punished by 3 - 12 months)
type B is small crimes commited by those that are trying to cheat and steal from others, not because they're backed against a wall, but because they just don't want to work hard for a living. (punished by 1 - 7 years)
type C is large crimes that severely jepordize someone's metal, emotional, and/or physical health. So it could be Rape, Murder, Assult, and so on. (punished by 7 years - life)
What I have the issue with is that the punishments don't have any overlap. A mugging by a desperate person to get some food could fall into either type A or type C. But people that do graffiti are in type B (or no catigory at all), but putting them behind bars for over a year is a little much for me. And this process doesn't seem to cover violent misdomeanors (a drunken bar fight). How should other things like drug use or prostitution fall under this?
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Post by Ranjith arun on Oct 29, 2007 18:18:04 GMT -6
Actually thats just a 15 mins thought oregonelephant!! You can't expect perfection in it. You may Modify it and improve the negative aspects (thats Y i am here in YFCI, i think). If there is a hole, it has to be mended.
But what about the core Idea? worth or waste or doubtful?
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 29, 2007 23:12:22 GMT -6
As a whole (once all the little things are smoothed out) I think it is an idea that could really work. You might not need different prisons for class A and B, but just different wings of the same prisons (to save some money without cutting into effectiveness). I don't know what kind of prison system India currently has, or if it needs to be revamped in this way, but this would definately work.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Oct 31, 2007 14:22:04 GMT -6
So what do you think of Killing criminals now??
why can't they be kept guarded as a punishment ? do you still believe we need capital punishments?
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 31, 2007 14:48:09 GMT -6
So what do you think of Killing criminals now?? why can't they be kept guarded as a punishment ? do you still believe we need capital punishments? The DP does deter murder rates. I still feel that the execution of murderers is vital for a country to be safe for it's citizens.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Oct 31, 2007 15:38:55 GMT -6
You are right,. but can't we find an effective alternative for DP? see if the cases like Sep 11 incident, it is ok to execute them. but i prefer execution to be done for saving lives. if one does a crime by bombing 100's of people to death, what is the use of killing him after we gain nothing, I just want this world with peace........, thats it. PS:- ( one part of me now thinks that you are right, cause i hate terrorists killing bulk of lives just for worthless issues [if an issue is a coz for the death of people i consider it worthless]. god!!!can't we have all the evil bloodthirsty humans out of this planet at once some how?)
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 31, 2007 16:13:20 GMT -6
Of course the DP doesn't work as a deterant on those that no long value their own lives. But to the extent of working on people who are planing on killing another person for personal reasons, it deters them.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Nov 1, 2007 2:05:47 GMT -6
I can't digest the consequence (DP), but while looking in to the cause we have no other choice left(in some cases).
some of them turn criminals, Bcoz of the situations(noble) too...they can be spared. i guess.,
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Post by oregonelephant on Nov 1, 2007 9:48:33 GMT -6
I would agree that the DP isn't suitible for all cases. Just because it's murder doesn't automatically send to the chair. Tieing this to another thread, Reba Macintyre had a big hit song called "the night the lights went out in Georgia" (one of my personal favorites). It basically goes as her brother's wife is unfaithful and enjoys to sleep around with everyone, namely the brother's friend (who told him), her fiance, and the judge. He kill's his wife and his sister's fiance (she's the one singing the song) and the judge hangs him for it, but it was his sister that killed them and he plead guilty to protect her and the judge wanted to get the trial over with because he was cheating with the guy's wife. At the end of the song, she admits that it was her that killed them 40 years later.
I know this is a song, but it is a case that can happen, and I don't think that she should get Death.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Nov 1, 2007 14:47:14 GMT -6
Recently we had an unusual case here.......
one man was accused of kidnapping, raping, murdering a girl of 6th grade by burning her. Police showed where he did the crime then and also evidences to prove that he killed the Girl. He was arrested and got out in bail with in 3 months.
this happened before 9 years and the case did go on till this year (last month)........
But guess the climax!!!!
The victim, thought to be dead, appeared with his hubby n kid in the court. ( yeah, the girl got married....)
And the Victim's father confirmed that she is his daughter too...... now the court had ordered for a DNA test and it seems that she wasn't molested or (killed!!!?!!).....
even the suspect himself is reported to have said that he killed the girl years before....... but that need not be true (may be bcoz of Police men's torture or might be set up).
But the Question here is What if the judgment was made long back, declaring Capital punishment to the guy?
similar, unique case right?
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Post by oregonelephant on Nov 1, 2007 15:00:41 GMT -6
Recently we had an unusual case here....... one man was accused of kidnapping, raping, murdering a girl of 6th grade by burning her. Police showed where he did the crime then and also evidences to prove that he killed the Girl. He was arrested and got out in bail with in 3 months. this happened before 9 years and the case did go on till this year (last month)........ But guess the climax!!!! The victim, thought to be dead, appeared with his hubby n kid in the court. ( yeah, the girl got married....) And the Victim's father confirmed that she is his daughter too...... now the court had ordered for a DNA test and it seems that she wasn't molested or (killed!!!?!!)..... even the suspect himself is reported to have said that he killed the girl years before....... but that need not be true (may be bcoz of Police men's torture or might be set up). But the Question here is What if the judgment was made long back, declaring Capital punishment to the guy? similar, unique case right? In the US the average wait time before a convicted person is executed is 12 1/2 years. Errors in the system should be held as the responsiblity of the system, not the DP. The DP makes sure the justice system is correct, because they can't afford any mistakes. The government should not be allowed to have someone in jail for 9 years wrongfully and then, when the person is released, say "well, at least we didn't execute him." That just gives them an excuse to be lazy and allow more wrongful convictions. I am not saying that I wish the man was executed so the government would learn, but the government needs to be trying it's best to do things right, and not except that it's okay to miss one every now and again.
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Post by Ranjith arun on Nov 1, 2007 15:34:17 GMT -6
Of course, you are right... and the convicts are executed after 12.5 years??? what would they do until then? imprisoned? here they don't wait that much I guess, maximum 2 to 3 years if the criminal is proved of the crime. We had some DP's in last 20 yrs, i guess. i am sure about one, It is for a blunder committed by a over-religious criminal. His name was Tharasingh. He along with 12 other Hindus convicted for burning alive Christian missionary and two young sons. "The killings were among a series of attacks against missionaries and Christian institutions blamed on right-wing Hindus who complained that poor Hindus were being pressured to convert." "The pattern set in the aftermath of the Staines killing shows that there are enough voices in positions of authority willing to justify heinous crimes committed in the name of religion." read more here:- www.newnation.org/Archives/burned-alive-040714.htmlI personally thought it was not too bad to Punish them to death( any ways only one was executed), coz they did a powerful mistake which can create chaos internationally. I hate the Orthodox or over-religious people, for god is in Peace and love, while not in violence or supremacy n stuffs.
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Post by oregonelephant on Nov 1, 2007 17:01:36 GMT -6
Of course, you are right... and the convicts are executed after 12.5 years??? what would they do until then? imprisoned? here they don't wait that much I guess, maximum 2 to 3 years if the criminal is proved of the crime. We had some DP's in last 20 yrs, i guess. i am sure about one, It is for a blunder committed by a over-religious criminal. His name was Tharasingh. He along with 12 other Hindus convicted for burning alive Christian missionary and two young sons. "The killings were among a series of attacks against missionaries and Christian institutions blamed on right-wing Hindus who complained that poor Hindus were being pressured to convert." "The pattern set in the aftermath of the Staines killing shows that there are enough voices in positions of authority willing to justify heinous crimes committed in the name of religion." read more here:- www.newnation.org/Archives/burned-alive-040714.htmlI personally thought it was not too bad to Punish them to death( any ways only one was executed), coz they did a powerful mistake which can create chaos internationally. I hate the Orthodox or over-religious people, for god is in Peace and love, while not in violence or supremacy n stuffs. Yes the people wait in prison. Until there time, this way they have a lot of time to find mistakes and correct them and such. Although the US uses the DP, they don't use it alot, about 50 people in the entire country every year get executed, thats not a lot.
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