BEGGARY

[Ranjith arun]

Almost We all have beggary in our countries,
So we can discuss about the causes of beggary and conclude on some decision to eradicate it.

1. What do you think is the cause of beggary?

2. Are you aware of the blunders that happen in beggary? (Beggars industry?)

3. Who do you blame for Beggary? The government or the beggars themselves?

4. What can be done to completely eradicate beggary?

[oregonelephant]

1) there are many things that causes people to become beggers (I've never heard of the term beggary, but I'm assuming to means homeless people who beg for money, if not correct me and I'll edit my post). It generally comes from when they've lost all their money and assets and don't have a way back up financially. How they lose their money is really what causes emotions to swing from a lot of sympathy to none at all. Many of them have lost all their money because of addictions to drugs and alcohol, and will only spend the money that you give them on those addictions. But in many cases, it is caused by a series of bad mistakes and bad luck occuring at the same time. Such as a Veteran comeing back from a war with a disability and can't find work, when the money that they may have saved runs out, so have their options.

2)Yes, In the USA a few years ago (I believe it was here in Oregon only, but it may have happened esle where), there were some businesses that decided to have the beggers hold up signs advertising the businesses, paying only a bag of food. There are a lot more issues that go on. In college, I had some roommates that liked to get high and/or drunk and go out and beat up homeless people.

3)It depends on the case, in the USA, there are a lot of governmental agencies that help homeless beggers. So most of the beggers and panhandlers chose not to use these programs, so it makes one think that they are at fault through an addiction, but those that use the programs to try to get back on their feet, I wouldn't blame the government, as I would blame a series of highly unfortunate events that left them that way (in many cases, bill collectors with no heart) and the government trys to help.

4)Nothing can be done to fully prevent it. No matter how hard you work there will always be some. But there are some things that can be done to help prevent it and to help those after they fall. Education is the big key, some of the people (namely the Vets) didn't get a lot of education and relied on their physical capabilities to make money (manual labour), than after they get injured, they have no strength and no good education, leaving them not much in the world. So if we can keep people educated (well educated), they can always have a fall back should they get permanatly hurt.

[darkme]

Here's a petition by an org called 'Aspire2Inspire' to stop the beggar mafia, www.ipetitions.com/petition/raisevoiceagainstbeggarmafia/

Sign it if you think this should be stopped!

[Ranjith arun]

1) there are many things that causes people to become beggars (I've never heard of the term beggary, but I'm assuming to means homeless people who beg for money, if not correct me and I'll edit my post). "You are right !!!!"

It generally comes from when they've lost all their money and assets and don't have a way back up financially. How they lose their money is really what causes emotions to swing from a lot of sympathy to none at all. "AGAIN., You are right !!!! "

Many of them have lost all their money because of addictions to drugs and alcohol, and will only spend the money that you give them on those addictions. "But now you are partially right...
Not many of them are addicts(am talking about Asian Countries).... We in India have addicts too.... but sadly lotta children are involved in begging (forced to).The petition sent by Noor talks about the Term "BEGGAR MAFIA". I think in India we intensely have this situation ....."


But in many cases, it is caused by a series of bad mistakes and bad luck occurring at the same time. Such as a Veteran coming back from a war with a disability and can't find work, when the money that they may have saved runs out, so have their options.
"You really think a veteran returned from war with disability Has to BEG? OMG! we have to stop that first.. How can we Humiliate a soldier who got hurt for his own country???"

2)Yes, In the USA a few years ago (I believe it was here in Oregon only, but it may have happened else where), there were some businesses that decided to have the beggers hold up signs advertising the businesses, paying only a bag of food. There are a lot more issues that go on. In college, I had some roommates that liked to get high and/or drunk and go out and beat up homeless people.
"Thats really sad.... they use poverty for marketing?? We have a lot of illegal actions like this going on undercover in society"

3)It depends on the case, in the USA, there are a lot of governmental agencies that help homeless beggers.
"Thats really good to hear... We don have lot of agencies here to help them...(But we have an Option to arrest beggars who beg in cities.. CRAZZY VILE POLITICIANS, right?) "

So most of the beggers and panhandlers chose not to use these programs, so it makes one think that they are at fault through an addiction, but those that use the programs to try to get back on their feet, I wouldn't blame the government, as I would blame a series of highly unfortunate events that left them that way (in many cases, bill collectors with no heart) and the government trys to help. "Here I think I have to blame the government.... coz they don hav an option to Help beggars at all!!Like you say, some lazy people may be not at all interested in working.... But what about the good half of them? if they are forced to beg for survival then what is the use of having a government?"

4)Nothing can be done to fully prevent it. No matter how hard you work there will always be some. But there are some things that can be done to help prevent it and to help those after they fall. Education is the big key, some of the people (namely the Vets) didn't get a lot of education and relied on their physical capabilities to make money (manual labour), than after they get injured, they have no strength and no good education, leaving them not much in the world. So if we can keep people educated (well educated), they can always have a fall back should they get permanatly hurt.
"Aaahh!!! negative answer in the very first reply, Lolzz ( may be this is not sounding as a big problem in your country ). But You are right about the cure, LITERACY is the right thing to be implemented.
but WHEN? after decades? So what about children wandering with out foot wears, under hot sun in roads, to beg for some one else's survival NOW??? DOn't they deserve a better life?"

[Zach]

Nice post Arun! Thanks allot for posting that; its very descriptive Maybe in the future, you would be interested in writing about beggary for the YFCI online magazine?

Thanks again. karma for you!

[oregonelephant]

ranjitharun said:

"Not many of them are addicts(am talking about Asian Countries).... We in India have addicts too.... but sadly lotta children are involved in begging (forced to).The petition sent by Noor talks about the Term "BEGGAR MAFIA". I think in India we intensely have this situation ....."

I'm not too familiar with the Asian aspect, most of my knowledge in begging comes from the European and American aspect.

"You really think a veteran returned from war with disability Has to BEG? OMG! we have to stop that first.. How can we Humiliate a soldier who got hurt for his own country???"

I lot of soldiers (not a hugh percentage, but enough to be consideribly noticed) from Vietnam were forgotten by the government, and with their wounds, we not able to work, and with the little money that the government did give, they couldn't afford to live (food or shelter), and once they lose a mailing address, they lose the money from the government.

"Thats really sad.... they use poverty for marketing?? We have a lot of illegal actions like this going on undercover in society"

Don't worry, the people got that stopped very quickly (it only lasted about a 2 weeks, before the public outcry nearly put the company out of business and they stopped that kind of marketing

"Here I think I have to blame the government.... coz they don hav an option to Help beggars at all!!Like you say, some lazy people may be not at all interested in working.... But what about the good half of them? if they are forced to beg for survival then what is the use of having a government?"

Part of the governmental programs in the US involve drug detoxing, and many of the beggers that do drugs, won't get the help because they don't want to give up drugs. In the USA it has gotten to the point to where the government is saying for people to stop handing out money to beggars on the side of the street, because the chances are, the oney you gave them will go buy drugs or alcohol instead of food. If they want food, there are many places they can go to get food and warm clothes where we can make sure that it isn't going to drugs.

"Aaahh!!! negative answer in the very first reply, Lolzz ( may be this is not sounding as a big problem in your country ). But You are right about the cure, LITERACY is the right thing to be implemented.
but WHEN? after decades? So what about children wandering with out foot wears, under hot sun in roads, to beg for some one else's survival NOW??? DOn't they deserve a better life?"

I'm not saying that we can't make it better, but it can't be 100% eliminated. There will always be people who have let their lives be ruined by drugs, and won't try to work out of where they are and just want money for more drugs. I think it is possible to eliminate Beggary Mofia (if thats what you were asking instead of beggary than sorry for misinterpreting), because that is just a business (an evil one, but one still, it trys to make money and that is all it cares about) and any business can be taken down when it has no wanting clients.

[Ranjith arun]

admin said:

Nice post Arun! Thanks allot for posting that; its very descriptive Maybe in the future, you would be interested in writing about beggary for the YFCI online magazine?

Thanks again. karma for you!

Thanxx alot Zach

Sure, I will write for YFCI online Mag.... after some time.

[Ranjith arun]

Sorry for Late reply...
I had my connection cut while i was about to post.

I'm not too familiar with the Asian aspect, most of my knowledge in begging comes from the European and American aspect.

I Guessed it. (anyways How should i call you? elephant? funny!!)

I lot of soldiers (not a hugh percentage, but enough to be consideribly noticed) from Vietnam were forgotten by the government, and with their wounds, we not able to work, and with the little money that the government did give, they couldn't afford to live (food or shelter), and once they lose a mailing address, they lose the money from the government.

Thats really disgusting..... How can you do that to them? they lost their health, peace, happiness, almost everything in their life for the country...but they weren't given a fair chance to survive rest of their life?? Will you Go to some war even if they promise paying you more?
they did it for their country and now they are forgotten....(inhumane NATURE). I respect army men than many of others. In India, If a soldier dies in a fight against terrorists, they just talk about the bravery of him for day and thats it. But what about his family ? his kids? I hate using bad words but i can't help at times.
The government is nothing but a group of greedy vile men among the common ruling all people. May be we have 1 or 2 good ones but what is the use?

OUT OF ALL PRIME MINISTERS, REPRESENTATIVES OR PRESIDENTS OF NATIONS OF THIS WORLD WHO WOULD REALLY BE READY TO PARTICIPATE IN A WAR ?
[shadow=red,left,300]will they die for their nation?[/shadow] If one says i will,humbugs...

Can't the government find a way to employ all the physically challenged veterans from war? is that really hard? while they spend billions in Nuke research, can't they afford .0001 % of it for lives that risked themselves for others? ON HEARING ALL THESE I CAN SAY ONLY A THING, THE REASONS TO CALL US ALL HUMANS ARE LESSENING RAPIDLY .

Don't worry, the people got that stopped very quickly (it only lasted about a 2 weeks, before the public outcry nearly put the company out of business and they stopped that kind of marketing

Thats comforting but this one could have constructive. if the companies can just employ them at the basic level for the same advertising thing it would have been ideal. But sadly all of us including them, are SITUATIONISTs.

Part of the governmental programs in the US involve drug detoxing, and many of the beggers that do drugs, won't get the help because they don't want to give up drugs. In the USA it has gotten to the point to where the government is saying for people to stop handing out money to beggars on the side of the street, because the chances are, the oney you gave them will go buy drugs or alcohol instead of food. If they want food, there are many places they can go to get food and warm clothes where we can make sure that it isn't going to drugs.

Our government's actions regarding this issue is nil. All they care for is bringing up an issue to which the opposite parties oppose, make themselves popular. Here we have a few small private organizations to help them, they do make steps to their ability. but In big cities here, the mafia thing is linked with gangsters; so not easy to implement a reformation unless government takes necessary steps.

I'm not saying that we can't make it better, but it can't be 100% eliminated. There will always be people who have let their lives be ruined by drugs, and won't try to work out of where they are and just want money for more drugs. I think it is possible to eliminate Beggary Mofia (if thats what you were asking instead of beggary than sorry for misinterpreting), because that is just a business (an evil one, but one still, it trys to make money and that is all it cares about) and any business can be taken down when it has no wanting clients.

Clients??? i don't get you. Of course it can be called as a business, but we only have worst men gaining money from it. I don't think they will stop themselves unless they are stopped with force.

[llVoXll]

Woah more questions? Ranjith arun should be a teacher xDDD

1. What do you think is the cause of beggary?
They either need or want it

2. Are you aware of the blunders that happen in beggary? (Beggars industry?)
Mafia?

3. Who do you blame for Beggary? The government or the beggars themselves?
Everyone knows the gobbie is pretty useless so I blame it on the people for taking the decision. People who beg, stay begging. People who work hard from zero end up living a healthy life. Many poor people to physical jobs, with the money they get they hire personnel to do those jobs, with that money, they create a small place where they put up their business, with the money they buy the necesary materials and with all that money they get they send their kids to school. This is what a guy I knew did. The guy is still kind of poor but happy and able to live since he started from 0.

4. What can be done to completely eradicate beggary?
I dun think posting announcements in the walls of gas stations that say 'Beggary not permited' work. If they want to beg, let them beg because it is their decision to do so, even if we provide the sufficient materials they need. We can't force people to do what we want, maybe that way they gain even more than what they can adquire by giving them goods

Yeah I know, I hate beggars but i love people who go own without begging others


EDIT: Children begging
I usually dun give them money but fruits and apples or something to eat and anyway they insult you but what can we do, they have hard a hard life. Still I prefer in those cases to reunite all of the begging kids and organize a hot chocolate party which is what we do twice a year here in Chosica with my grandmother and my aunt

[Ranjith arun]

Woah more questions? Ranjith arun should be a teacher xDDD

Hahahaah U r funny; if only teacher should ask questions, yeah am a teacher then.. ;D ;D

They either need or want it

Need or want what? (what is the difference between both words?!! )

Mafia?

Yeah; (I like the WORD mafia, So for your question "yeah'fia")

Everyone knows the gov. is pretty useless so I blame it on the people for taking the decision. People who beg, stay begging. People who work hard from zero end up living a healthy life. Many poor people to physical jobs, with the money they get they hire personnel to do those jobs, with that money, they create a small place where they put up their business, with the money they buy the necesary materials and with all that money they get they send their kids to school. This is what a guy I knew did. The guy is still kind of poor but happy and able to live since he started from 0.

Completely true about the government, But How can you Blame all the people?? what if one is forced to beg ? What will you do about them?

I dun think posting announcements in the walls of gas stations that say 'Beggary not permited' work. If they want to beg, let them beg because it is their decision to do so, even if we provide the sufficient materials they need. We can't force people to do what we want, maybe that way they gain even more than what they can adquire by giving them goods

Again Funny but ridiculous too!!! if they want to beg, Let them beg ? If ones(among beggars) with good intention at mind are properly taken care of, by providing some kind of employment (at least Seasonal employment) by the GOV. , then I think we can abolish it or something. You know most of us Don't support it at all, so after considering and helping the good half of them, Y can't we ban it?

Yeah I know, I hate beggars but i love people who go own without begging others

You are right. but think about some of the unemployed people; we don't have lot of Messengers or book keepers in Banks anymore, everything thing is now done through the power of computers nowadays. here in India, we used to have many mobile shops which sell candies and sodas (A special type made by small scale industries), a lot more.. But none is seen now coz we have some giants like COKE, PEPSI, RELIANCE (One of the biggest companies in India) coming in every small market in India (which mostly consists people who survive only from it) ; Of course the Companies have a lot of money to spend in Marketing and advertising too... Like wise they get more popular too, so what do the formers got to do??

EDIT: Children begging I usually dun give them money but fruits and apples or something to eat and anyway they insult you but what can we do, they have hard a hard life. Still I prefer in those cases to reunite all of the begging kids and organize a hot chocolate party which is what we do twice a year here in Chosica with my grandmother and my aunt.

:)I am really happy to hear that Chocolate party of yours. More over you can try contacting other organizations that literate the children and help them too. coz if you can gather a group of children it is easy to do something positive. i donate (of course, too low) occasionally to some organization here that helps orphans and physically challenged children.....
I really want to do something about it, of course, i feel it is hard to do it alone; so i am talking with some of my friends here...

[oregonelephant]

The difference between "need" and "want" is "need" is something that you have to have in order to live or funtion, want is just something that you would like to have.

Example, you need food to eat and a house over your head, but you want a big screen tv and to win the lottery.

[Ranjith arun]

Thankss oregonelephant!!!
Can you just throw Light on one of your previous posts?

Who do you think are the clients???

[llVoXll]

ranjitharun said:

Woah more questions? Ranjith arun should be a teacher xDDD

Hahahaah U r funny; if only teacher should ask questions, yeah am a teacher then.. ;D ;D

They either need or want it

Need or want what? (what is the difference between both words?!! )

Mafia?

Yeah; (I like the WORD mafia, So for your question "yeah'fia")

Everyone knows the gov. is pretty useless so I blame it on the people for taking the decision. People who beg, stay begging. People who work hard from zero end up living a healthy life. Many poor people to physical jobs, with the money they get they hire personnel to do those jobs, with that money, they create a small place where they put up their business, with the money they buy the necesary materials and with all that money they get they send their kids to school. This is what a guy I knew did. The guy is still kind of poor but happy and able to live since he started from 0.

Completely true about the government, But How can you Blame all the people?? what if one is forced to beg ? What will you do about them?

I dun think posting announcements in the walls of gas stations that say 'Beggary not permited' work. If they want to beg, let them beg because it is their decision to do so, even if we provide the sufficient materials they need. We can't force people to do what we want, maybe that way they gain even more than what they can adquire by giving them goods

Again Funny but ridiculous too!!! if they want to beg, Let them beg ? If ones(among beggars) with good intention at mind are properly taken care of, by providing some kind of employment (at least Seasonal employment) by the GOV. , then I think we can abolish it or something. You know most of us Don't support it at all, so after considering and helping the good half of them, Y can't we ban it?

Yeah I know, I hate beggars but i love people who go own without begging others

You are right. but think about some of the unemployed people; we don't have lot of Messengers or book keepers in Banks anymore, everything thing is now done through the power of computers nowadays. here in India, we used to have many mobile shops which sell candies and sodas (A special type made by small scale industries), a lot more.. But none is seen now coz we have some giants like COKE, PEPSI, RELIANCE (One of the biggest companies in India) coming in every small market in India (which mostly consists people who survive only from it) ; Of course the Companies have a lot of money to spend in Marketing and advertising too... Like wise they get more popular too, so what do the formers got to do??

EDIT: Children begging I usually dun give them money but fruits and apples or something to eat and anyway they insult you but what can we do, they have hard a hard life. Still I prefer in those cases to reunite all of the begging kids and organize a hot chocolate party which is what we do twice a year here in Chosica with my grandmother and my aunt.

:)I am really happy to hear that Chocolate party of yours. More over you can try contacting other organizations that literate the children and help them too. coz if you can gather a group of children it is easy to do something positive. i donate (of course, too low) occasionally to some organization here that helps orphans and physically challenged children.....
I really want to do something about it, of course, i feel it is hard to do it alone; so i am talking with some of my friends here...

lol, since like our personalities crash xDDDD
I'm the eccentric 'hate-gob' 'hate-ppl' type, perhaps not too logical but I do have my moments... sometimes

[Ranjith arun]

I do have thoughts like you at times.....
Actually I think we are alike in our opinion about both gov and people.

But people I do care about the unguarded ones, who know nothing of the evils going on around them.
I have moments in which i hate all of them too.....but mostly not the poor ones,
I hate... uhh...
you can call them as middle classed n above ones or (Literate yet foolish+greedy+selfish+IDK+majority) people.

[llVoXll]

got it

nothing worse than ppl who have it all but their ethical entity is cracked up

[oregonelephant]

ranjitharun said:

Thankss oregonelephant!!!
Can you just throw Light on one of your previous posts?

Who do you think are the clients???

Well, based off of what I've learned so far, the business seems to be like this...

A Mafia organization (or something like it) kidnapps and mutilates some people and those people are than forced to beg by thier injuries (which prevent them from being able to work). The Mafia, than goes by and takes a cut of that money and provides just enough to keep the beggars alive but still looking a bad as possible to drawn out as much sympathy as possible.

Therefore the "clients" are those that give money to the beggar and the beggar is the "product." If the beggar can go somewhere other than the streets for money (a homeless shelter to get food and clothes) and the people stop handing out money, the Mafia will lose almost all the income from that form of business, and will stop (it is, after all, only the money that they care about).

[gemini]

What do you think is the cause of beggary?
They are many different reason for beggers-Some persons are force to beg especially children, living on the street, being homeless is also another cause and some people just beg out of greed.

Who do you blame for Beggary? The government or the beggars themselves?
I dont think the government should be blamed for beggers. What the government can do is help the people on the street that are begging.
The beggers are responsible for their action which is begging so anyone at fault is the beggers.

[oregonelephant]

The government can be at blaim to a degree, if a government isn't doing anything to help, then the government is at fault for the ones that want to do better but can't climb out of the hole. If the government is putting hundreds of millions of dollars every year to help beggars, and they chose not to utilize those services than it is the beggars, so it goes differently between countries and gevernments.

[Ranjith arun]

But what can the physically challenged people do???

Suppose a Blind man, He can't do any of the common works that a normal man does.
so what is he supposed to do to survive?

[oregonelephant]

ranjitharun said:

But what can the physically challenged people do???

Suppose a Blind man, He can't do any of the common works that a normal man does.
so what is he supposed to do to survive?

What can a blind man do for work? What jobs are there that don't require one's eyes? They can do any job that requires thinking over acting, so anything that comes with delevoping ideas and having other impliment these ideas.