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Post by ViCtoria* on Oct 23, 2007 11:20:03 GMT -6
That's why life is gray instead of white and black, I think. You posed a big problem here, Oregon Elephant, I also thought about it myself. Where should we draw the line? I personally belief life starts with fertilization; when the gametes meet at the end of the fallopian tubes and the newly formed cell starts dividing until, then becoming a blastocyte, then a hugh ball of cells, then.. human? Most people that are against abortion, EXCEPT in cases of rape or mother's inability, etc., draw the line when the bunch of cells already has a human form. Why is this? If we look at this from an outer perspective, it just depends on whatever society wants to do. Research with aborted babies, experiment with a 5 months pregnant women or anything like that. But that's if we leave away the feelings. And I think almost nobody would be able to and would prefer to respect the baby's right to live *.
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 23, 2007 11:45:05 GMT -6
That's a very good point, that I agree with the notion that it's a human upon fertilization, because at that point, the cells will become human 100% if left undestirbed, it won't become anything but human, so that is as good as human.
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Post by Justin R. Wilkerson on Oct 28, 2007 19:51:47 GMT -6
I think that if the mother will die, if she has the baby, then "maybe" i have seen abortions, and they are PURE evil.
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 29, 2007 11:16:22 GMT -6
I wouldn't say pure evil, as I would say compeletly selfish and self centered. I hear a lot of people saying that a 14 year old girl is pregnant and I am evil because I would force her to have that child. It's not me that would froce her to have that child, it is nature that is making her have a child. I also know (with 100% certainty) of what she did to get pregnant, and it was a risk that she choose to make to indulge in her self pleasures (in the case of incest and rape, I am for abortion). I don't believe that it is fair to deny someone life because their mother wants to have more fun before being tied down by a child.
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Post by Zach on Oct 29, 2007 15:39:15 GMT -6
But its truly up to that girl/woman to decide!
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 29, 2007 15:51:56 GMT -6
No, it's not. No one should be allowed to take another life in order to free themselves from difficulties and embassement off the actions that they made in the first place.
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Post by ViCtoria* on Oct 29, 2007 16:36:10 GMT -6
Believe it or not, I support oregonelephant here. Haha joking . But it's true, I think he (or she?) is right. I am a woman and I know it is not my right to deprive another human being (because it's a human, not only a fetus) from the experiences of life. And if you're raped... well, you can always give the baby to adoption. It's better than abortion, that has horrible side-effects for your health. The only important exception I have faced is when the baby is diagnosed with a rare disease, like SCID or something that cannot be treated, so when she or he is born, death will come pretty soon. What do you think? Should we let the baby be born and die suffering, or abort?
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Post by oregonelephant on Oct 29, 2007 16:52:21 GMT -6
Believe it or not, I support oregonelephant here. Haha joking . But it's true, I think he (or she?) is right. I am a woman and I know it is not my right to deprive another human being (because it's a human, not only a fetus) from the experiences of life. And if you're raped... well, you can always give the baby to adoption. It's better than abortion, that has horrible side-effects for your health. The only important exception I have faced is when the baby is diagnosed with a rare disease, like SCID or something that cannot be treated, so when she or he is born, death will come pretty soon. What do you think? Should we let the baby be born and die suffering, or abort? That's a great question that many don't ask those that are against abortion. If the disease is known that it will kill the baby (that they'll die before they have a chance at life) than I would say that Abortion would probably be the best option, but if it was something that effected life but didn't end it (like Down syndrome) that is much more challenging, and would go on as a case by case basis.
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Post by kingorseolo on Dec 24, 2007 23:49:10 GMT -6
Well, as an avowed Libertarian, and also a Christian (Or atleast I like to think of myself as a Christian) this is something of a confusing issue for me and always has been and probably always will be. I will say that I find abortion absolutely terrible and wrong on every level, especially when it is used as a form of month after birth control. I have had a lot of close friends who have gotten abortions, and have seen how it can be devastating to everyone involved. That isn't to judge on my friends at all, but I just think that besides in special cases, no one should ever get an abortion. Adoption was brought up by someone earlier and it's true that no mother should just cancel the potential child's potential life growing inside them. That is the morally wrong in my view, and goes against what I believe my religino teaches.
Now, I will say again that I dislike the idea of abortion, and have seen it used by a lot of my spoiled girls and guys I know as a way out of an unfortunate mistake. However, a baby in the womb is still technically part of a woman's body as long as it is being fed via the umbilical chord, and thus I think it should be entirely up to the mother as to whether she should abort or not. The government does not have the right to separate the choice from the mother, and to do so is a grave danger to individual libertie's. Human beings have a right to determine their own lifestyle and medical procedures, and it is not the governments position to enforce morality by outlawing abortion. As long as their are doctors willing to perform the operation, and women ready to pursue such an action, then I think the option should be out there legally for all women of every age. And that is the Libertarian in me speaking, seemingly in spite of my Christianity. But as Jesus said in Matthew 22:21 "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." This is a strong message of separation between church and state, and I think it proves that it is both the Christian and Libertarian posistion to be against abortion as a practice and in your own life, but not for it being against the law either. The government telling any person what to do with their bodies is a major, major threat; no matter what country you're living in.
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Post by 1000wattsmile on Feb 28, 2008 14:10:13 GMT -6
I am truly and utterly against abortion. And I do not agree to the idea that a fetus is not human (yet) because it is -- no skirting around that issue.
Whatever the circumstance surrounding the conception, Abortion must only be the last resort - meaning, we must consider it ONLY when the life of the mother is in jeopardy.
However, I also am aware and understand that people will decide on what's best for them and no matter what we say, they will have their own opinion and decision.
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Post by travisboddie on May 11, 2008 16:12:57 GMT -6
As a Assistant Youth Preacher it my belief that abortion is wrong, unless in cases of what the United Consitution shows. If you don't want the baby don't be selfish and think about yourself but you have the choices to let someone adopt the baby, and or do a variety of things. To take a life that deserve to live then isn't that unmoral. Who are we to say it unmoral? The bible talks about God only laid down the rules of judging. Some of you may be confused by what I'm saying and this is going to condridict everything I said but go with ur heart and speak to what ever religion u serve and ask for guidance.
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Post by Zach on May 12, 2008 11:49:00 GMT -6
I disagree with your statement. What about people who do not believe in god? Should we religious people take away their rights? I say NO!
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Post by travisboddie on May 12, 2008 20:12:01 GMT -6
No, that not what I am trying to say and apolgize if that how I came off. We religous people must only set the guideline for are personal choices. As far as others I think it takes not only the mother but the father opinion on the situation
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Post by travisboddie on Jul 21, 2008 16:45:56 GMT -6
It is my belief that who is anyone to judge for right?
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Post by ViCtoria* on Jul 22, 2008 11:44:16 GMT -6
Yes, we should not judge someone else's decisions as long as we are not affected by them. However, in order to keep the current world in a sort of equilibrium, some common values must be acquired.
In the end, whether we choose to preserve a baby's life or not depends on how society evolves, don't you think? If science required so, aborted babies would be used for research. If society becomes deeply conservative, then abortion would be forbidden. To which of these extremes do you tend to?
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Post by Zach on Jul 29, 2008 11:01:17 GMT -6
You're right Victoria I think science NEEDS to use them for research. My uncle has leaukemia (cancer in the blood), and will be using stem cells to get rid of it. Research saves lifes, and I think its really important that we continue it.
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kiwi
Forum Contributor
Posts: 36
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Post by kiwi on Jul 29, 2008 22:45:04 GMT -6
I am generally pro-choice. While I strongly disagree with abortion personally, I know that my own views should not be forced onto the women who must commit to such processes.
A big assumption that anti-choice activists make is that many women casually terminate their pregnancies. I can tell you now that no woman does not fully understand the consequences of undergoing abortion; they know they will have to live with it the rest of their lives; they know they may have given birth to a healthy child; they know that committing to this is quite possibly the biggest decision they will make in their lives.
Women do not make this choice without good reason. Making abortion illegal would, in my opinion, drive women to seeking riskier and more detrimental methods. Legality is no concern of the desperate.
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chloe
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by chloe on Jul 31, 2008 4:04:18 GMT -6
I'm anti-abortion, but I don't think making it illegal is the answer because that would just lead to illegal abortions which are unsafe. I think it would be better to give women more options i.e. have them talk to someone about adoption etc because I think that some women may just panic when they discover they are pregnant and rush into something which they later regret.
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Post by ViCtoria* on Jul 31, 2008 15:46:58 GMT -6
Hey chloe, thanks for sharing your opinions on the subject, have a karma! I agree with you, everyone should know more about other options besides abortion and not think that it is the only way "out". We should strive to educate people in our society on this matter.
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Post by alyssamilanofan on Aug 13, 2008 9:37:35 GMT -6
I agree with Kiwi. makig it illegal will not stop woman from having abortions it will just lead to more risky situations..
After seeing the process of my sister's pregnancy I for one can't believe in abortion.. For me the foetus was my nephew from the moment I heard about it, he was already very much a part of the family and he was a human being in my eyes..
One more thing to point out is what kind of a life is growing up in the system or growing up being unwanted by the parents? That's one side but than again who are we to judge what kind of life is worth living? For me it's a delicate situation and I'm not sure were I stand, I don't agree with it but on the other hand it doesn't feel like it's my place to judge..
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