Does the world need another world war?

[ViCtoria*]

"The world needs another world war to reset itself - economic growth, population control, formation of axis and allies, refocus people on what is important in life". Do you agree?

I oppose completely to this statement for many reasons... which I will explain later. Anyway, it is a topic for a discussion I'll have tomorrow in my English class, sooo, any opinions are gladly received

[Zach]

Whoa! I also oppose this completely as well. Thousands of people died in the last world war, and now there are more people living on earth. Think what the damage could be? Wow, this is horrible!

[alyssamilanofan]

and the advanced weapons?? Millions of people died last time (6 milion jewish people died on the hand of Hitler)
I think a new world war would mean the end of the planet earth. I mean face it about every country has nuclear weapons and with a new world war they will probably all use it... Besides I think a new world war will evolve probably much more countries it'll be disastrous besides war is never a good thing eventually a lot of people will die and a lot of money will be lost look at what happened in ww1 Germany lost a lot of money and was punished really rough by the US, England and France.. that is how Hitler was able to take over power people were poor and didn't have roofs over their heads or jobs and Hitler took advantage of that.. Think of what will happen if something like that happends again..

[darkme]

wars r never a way to 'reset' things! they r a start 4 horrible horrible things... look @ wats happening in Iraq now!

if we want to change the world then 'war' is the LAST LAST LAST thing we shud do. plus war against wat???

[Zach]

Karma Noor :-)

[darkme]

thank u ;D

[winmsn]

World War III = that's just a death wish.

[SoHuda]

no the world doesn't need one.. of course it doesn't
but I think the Q should be 'will the world go through another world war?' if you don't mind me suggesting this ;D

[ViCtoria*]

Thank you so much for replying! I totally agree, there should not be a world war. And yes, Sohuda, it should have been like that, but when I posted this thread I was thinking about the arguments for the debate I was going to have the next day... You are right. Now I will say why there is going to be a new world war:

-View the capitalist system as a sinking ship. It is in constant decay nowadays. The US is drowning on debts, and a lot of countries depend on its finance and support to subsist. If you search for essays made by economists on the Internet, they all predict the end of US hegemony in the world. Ill try to find the one they gave us in my Theory of Knowledge class.
-Discontent. If we were not worried about todays society, then pages like this that promote social change wouldnt exist cause we would all be happy ! Civil wars have started due to discontent, and now they are so big it is highly possible all the discontent people will make a revolution.
-Chinaaaaa! *Written by my friend Sonia cause Im in school, supposedly doing a presentation about Nicaragua and the US* We think China and India are countries that, if capitalism survives from the world war, will be the world superpowers.

And these are my 3 major arguments Yei. I think it is inevitable, excuse my pesimism. Ill start my presentation, take care!

[SoHuda]

yes, those are pretty serious signs.. but I don't think they'll turn into a world war.. hopefully not... because we don't need another reason to have people killed..
and karma for Vickey

[fathiamar]

We dont need world war, as we are at war.

We want to control trade, economy, the world market. China and India don't need world war to be superpower countries. If they can maintain the cheap labour, strategic trade ways, population, in no time, they will be superpower.

Who can control the market and make more GDP and revenues, are winning. As far as i'm concerned, we are at war.

A SILENT WAR.

[hekatea]

The only war I support is WAR against WAR. What do weapons do to us? Let's learn from the past two world wars and the civil wars. I think, someone, something, is just making money out of it, trying to recuperate from recession and economica downfall. Whatever. It still doesn't make sense. War breeds poverty and vice versa.

[llVoXll]

Hey this topic XDDD we discussed it in class (viCtoria and I were oponents) but WE won haha! i'm kiddin' MUAK! kisses ;D

Yeah I think there must be a war.

Of course it brings negative consequences such as hunger, death, poverty, destruction and strong stuff. But I try to center it upon the effects.

Countries who have had wars are the strongest ones and have nearly eliminated their poverty rates.

Some examples are Germany (geez, it was so smashed and destroyed) but after those crisis it became powerful. THe same with Japan and the Hiroshima bomb. Up to some point that incident made Japan be where it is now. There's also US (k... they're somehow abusive i know), Chile and many scientists expect Iraq to be a leading 1st world country in the next 50 years.

War opens the world's conscience, makes everyone work as a team and learn about the value of a life. Sure that time is horrible but after war has ended, happiness will overwhelm.

It's like crying. No one wants to cry but after crying you are the happiest person in Earth. If you abstain from crying because u have a bad time during that short period u remain restrained.

I believe it takes up a little courage to start up a war. I'd love to be in a war and die and be happy because my grandchildren and the other people in the world will have a better life than the one I have so I'm one of those people who's willing to take the sacrifice.

K, before viCtoria shoots me down with her Machine Gun I'd like to state this is just an opinion

[alyssamilanofan]

excuse me but half of Germany is still in Poverty, I've seen the effects on especially Eastern Germany and they're still so far behind..
And lost human life's are that lost human life's which you will never be able to replace, yeah sure make new babies but you'll never be able to replace all the HUMAN life's that would be lost..

Think about how many deaths these two wars have cost and how many of those deaths were innocent people who did nothing wrong, but just had a different believe or had a different opinion..
All the people, relatives, friends effected by the deaths of these people
People who have lost all their belongings, their homes, their family... I'm sorry but no war can ever be justified...

And especially with all the technology I think that if we would've another world war, it would be the end of the earth.. And if not, the weapons that will be used will wipe out entire countries and will have very deathly effects for years to come..

As well as they may seem to be doing Germany is still in debt for all that was destroyed in WW 1 and 2..
And the countries that really did become stronger, did this with the help of the US, the US funded these countries and gave these countries a loan...

And after ww1 and 2 there was a lot of tension between a lot of countries which could've easily escalated in a new world war (which they didn't because even then it would've had a horrible devestating effect on the world, what do you think will happen now, with the technology of the weapons and transportation today?)

And even if I don't count the technical stuff, I'm opposed of it because we're all human beings it doesn't matter, what skin color, belief or country you are/you're from.. We're all equal, with a war you try to dominate another country which is illogical as we're all equals.. Every death effects someone else. And what is worse is that there are people who make money from creating war, from killing innocent people..
Europe was in luck after WW 2, they were lucky the US, England France and Russia won if not things could've and would've been way different and even more devastating.. Nothing good comes from war

[llVoXll]

Well, excuse me to =D of course no point of view is perfect but I believe you get more positive stuff about it. :P

Your points of view are very cute, you really are very humble. However I'm afraid I must be q little bit souless this time =.= Sooorryyy =(

alyssamilanfan said:

excuse me but half of Germany is still in Poverty, I've seen the effects on especially Eastern Germany and they're still so far behind..

Half is a really low number in comparison to many number. Of course war effect is still there and cannot be forgotten but these horrible experiences make up a nation.

You can see it here, I've put two sources in case you think the other one is biased


Source taken from the University of Michigan

In that graph the USA is poor right now because of the current events, both the war and climate ones but this is just temporal.

Here's another source

Data source: World Resources Institute. 2006. Available at earthtrends.wri.org. Washington DC: World Resources Institute. Meny "Economics, Business, and the Environment", submeny "Searchable Database".

I can see they're perfectly well right now, of course poverty cannot be erased, as it will be an utopy

alyssamilanfan said:

And lost human life's are that lost human life's which you will never be able to replace, yeah sure make new babies but you'll never be able to replace all the HUMAN life's that would be lost..

Think about how many deaths these two wars have cost and how many of those deaths were innocent people who did nothing wrong, but just had a different believe or had a different opinion..
All the people, relatives, friends effected by the deaths of these people
People who have lost all their belongings, their homes, their family... I'm sorry but no war can ever be justified...

Everything in this world is an equilibrium. You are happy because you have cried and you enjoy life cause you have suffered it. Of course human lives are valuable but I am looking at this at an objective point of view. In this case it is not about X people dying but about keeping death quantities lower. You can't have the power to save every individual no matter how hard you try, but you must save the most. "This" war will obviously cause sacrifices but in the future people will not be starving to death nor eating their neighbours to survive. I've heard that many people after terrorist periods feel much happier. People in Chile state that after a period of severe murders and assasination Chile became a much better country and they do not regret it. I also have German family and they are HIGHLY ashamed of Hitler but if they had the chance to stop that, they said they wouldn't. I know, they're some people but there are those who think differently. But anyway those who think diffently are happy with the way they live but can't stand the past terror

I believe in world's equilibrium. Something of an equal value must be payed with an equal fee. What becomes of the purchase varies after time, and in wars case, the purchase in exchange of terror is worth it.

alyssamilanfan said:

And especially with all the technology I think that if we would've another world war, it would be the end of the earth.. And if not, the weapons that will be used will wipe out entire countries and will have very deathly effects for years to come..

It's world's equilibrium, part of the payment for world peace is destruction. Even the biblie thinks so when I comes to Apocalypsis. An eye for an eye.

alyssamilanfan said:

As well as they may seem to be doing Germany is still in debt for all that was destroyed in WW 1 and 2..
And the countries that really did become stronger, did this with the help of the US, the US funded these countries and gave these countries a loan...

What made US become the world's leading country? After which major event?

alyssamilanfan said:

And after ww1 and 2 there was a lot of tension between a lot of countries which could've easily escalated in a new world war (which they didn't because even then it would've had a horrible devestating effect on the world, what do you think will happen now, with the technology of the weapons and transportation today?)

I think it would be much worse, you're deffinetly right but I still think is somehow worthy

alyssamilanfan said:

And even if I don't count the technical stuff, I'm opposed of it because we're all human beings it doesn't matter, what skin color, belief or country you are/you're from.. We're all equal, with a war you try to dominate another country which is illogical as we're all equals.. Every death effects someone else. And what is worse is that there are people who make money from creating war, from killing innocent people..
Europe was in luck after WW 2, they were lucky the US, England France and Russia won if not things could've and would've been way different and even more devastating.. Nothing good comes from war

Waa ' wha wait O.o I didn't said I wanted to kill people nor that skin matter, where did you get this conclusion? =.=UU

Of course there's always money behind there, as I said, nothing is perferct nor totally worse, yep people make loads of money with war but that's another topic, we do not care about corruption but on the effect on the world.
I believe there is no luck but you create the possibility for it to exist. You don't explain why you consider them lucky but I think they did huge amounts of effort in order to do so, so they get merits.

I like your point of view, you are very caring about others and that's cute [: but I still believe war is a solution.

I'm leaving some other sources.

Cheers,
vox

HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
Overview
"The United Nation�s Human Development Index (HDI) is one of the most common measures of a country�s progress, making it an often-used indicator of poverty. The HDI was developed by Indian economist Amartya Sen in conjunction with Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq, in order to create a better measure of living standard than the traditional Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per capita measures. The HDI was first calculated for UN countries in 1990, but HDIs have been calculated back to 1975 for many countries, using past data (the UN has not attempted to calculate HDIs before 1975 due to lack of necessary data).

The HDI, rather than focusing just on income, uses a variety of variables to determine a country�s development progress: life expectancy at birth, education (based on adult literacy rates and school enrollment ratios), and GDP per capita. Using these, a decimal value between 0 and 1 (the HDI) is computed, the closer to one the better. UN countries have been ranked by their HDI since 1975, but changes have since been made to the method of calculation � most notably in 1999, when the income portion of the Index was reworked. This makes it hard to compare HDI data over the years, though the UN published a comparative table of the HDIs of UN countries in 1975, 1980, 1985, 1990, 1995, 2000, and 2002 in their Human Development Report (HDR) 2004."

Sources

Gilbert, Geoffry. World Poverty. Santa Barbara: ABC-CLIO 2004

Human Development Report 2005 Development Indicators

Human Development Report 2005 Technical Note (PDF)

"The Guardian Profile: Amartya Sen." The Guardian Unlimited. 31 March 2001.



Zoom:


Extract:
Credit to Dubya

"In Kuwait, women voted for the first time after being granted equal political rights last year. They participated in a council by-election in a district south of Kuwait City.

The list of positive effects from the Iraq war keeps growing."

[alyssamilanofan]

Oh no I didn't mean you, it was meant in general it's one point of what formed my believe against war.
I just don't get why people should kill each other to get a better world I just don't see it working that way, maybe on paper it does but I don't think that if you try in the world for real it will work, by the way what use is there in a better world when there's no earth left??
I believe (indeed in my humble opinion ) that to really learn from history you do have to look at the numbers of death because they're not just numbers they're people with life's just as the rest of us, they suffered for being different..

I don't think we can blame the Germans of back than for voting for Hitler by the way, not only did he get only around 30% of the votes (so he didn't have the majority of the votes) Germany lived in extreme poverty after WW 1, Hitler promised a better future, he began to voice his racism way later (after having the power) after even getting loans from Jews by the way, he slimed his way in, that part is understandable nobody could even do anything about it after he got the power because the Gestapo would arrest people who voiced their opinion against Hitler..

But to continue, I think that any economical profits for a country over the back of people who die and suffer dieing is not worth it..
I said that Europe was in luck because if Germany had won, we would still be ruled by the Germans, the Jewish community would've been erased and more people would've died, if I learned one thing from looking at Hitler and Stalin is that dictators are very paranoid and kill people at random.. I just discussed world war 2 and it's cause world war 1 in History class and I didn't see anything that could be positive, a lot of countries were in extreme poverty during and after the war, my grandma was part of that she had to eat flowers and their roots to stay a live...
The US did get richer by loaning Europe money, they made got profit out of it and established the loyalty of those countries and Europe did erase most poverty but the Netherlands for example weren't in need of any loans before the world war nor were countries as Belgium or France for that matter after the world war they were because Germany till this day can't pay back all it's debts.. Important historical cities throughout Europe have were ruined by all the bombings.. Which leads me to another point why waste money on killing people I mean f.e the US I heard on the news that the US cut back on the money they were going to give to an organization which leads the fight against cancer, to fund the Iraqi war.. Lives could be saved by that program and now that money goes to killing people.. If there wasn't any corruption in this world there would be no longer any poverty unfortunately half the money that goes to third world countries is wasted by the governments to have bloody wars, why not educate people so they can help build up their country piece by piece in every 'third world' country so we can make a better world....
I've been to Vienna a couple of months ago (Austria was also taken by the Germans) and we went to this destruction camp from the second world war, the had already make it look better but these people had to carry 50 kg rocks up a 300/400 steps staircase made of rocks or anything that was for some random reason around, as I said it was already made better but I walked down there and I almost f***ed up my ankle let a lone what it would've been like back than with a heavy rock like that all caused by WW 2.. I saw the rooms where those people had to sleep in with 100 people maybe even more in a bed that I would've have fit in a lone and they had to sleep in it with 3 people.. a room which normally would be big enough to fit at the maximum half the people probably way less.. I saw the rooms where they burned the corpses, where they did experiments on the people,I saw the place where they made people dig their own grave (not a figure of speech) I saw what that WW really did.. And that day I vowed to myself that we could never let this happen again a new WW would probably be filled with a lot of similarities like that, racism is still out there and in a new WW it'll be about that again.. War divides people (yes it may bring people in a country closer together but if you look at the world it creates tension between countries, The US and Russia still have a bad relationship..
I think that if we look at what's important I think human life's are at the top of the list and by killing people you don't solve anything.. I think that war won't help us but that it will create more and bigger problems..
If we truly want to make this world a better place every human life should count, if it's not like that it won't be a better world, maybe it'll appear to be in an economic point of view.. But not really because if you look at your life, the only thing that really matters is the love you have for other people (and I'm not accusing you of anything with that statement if you did not care about other people you wouldn't be here, it's just in general)
I find war illogical, a waste of human life, no solution, devastating, overall bad and unnecessary.. But that;s oke we all have a different opinion and we're entitled to that..

[ViCtoria*]

Very interesting points of view from both of you.. Although I truly support Jen U see, I'm a pacifist.. But I love you, Andreaaaa!* Woohoo! Lol. Karma for both!

[darkme]

way to go u 2... very interesting discussion and if u don't mind me butting in here I go: I see where ur coming from VOX, war can end the war existed! but again I have 2 say that I agree with Jenny all the way...
lets look at how things wud be if a war actually took place:
now lets say there r 2 parties... and it'd probably be more heated up than WW 2, they wudnt hesitate to use nukes, and who wud get affected? PEOPLE, those ppl who just wanna live their lives and they didn't choose for their country to get into this war, the land will be damaged... and I think we all know what war creates... if the ppl chose 2 be in war, like ALL of them then thats ok, bcuz they;d agree with what their country is doing, look at the US now, many ppl don't want them 2 be in Iraq! we r being leaded by our governmenst when we shud be leading the government!

I say instead of having to fight wars, we need to oevr come the opression of govs and we need to let the politicians know that the country they're leading isn't just theirs, we r living in the world too....

and so, if it happened lets try n see what positive out come we might get:
end terrorism, an evolution against the tyranny gov/leader -like in Iraq- but on the long run... look at Iraq again, ppl miss the basic daily life things that we can't live without, water, food, electricity and most importantly FEELING SAFE!

so are we willing to risk that even if it was for a numerous years? and who can guarantee that we will accomplish whatever reason we went in war for?

Now, ok, that was long!! but gr8 posts u 2... keep it up!

[darkme]

here I go again, I am somehow drifiting from the original topic but I can't help express this:
I don't know 100% the circumcstances which led to both of the world wars, neither do I claim to know them. I just would like to express my thoughts on this subject:
Does a third world war need to be fought with planes, big machine guns, tanks? Does it have to be between countries? Does a party need more than one country to collaborate? Does it even need governmental powers? I am highly skeptical when it comes to these questions...
Let us take a look at the world today, shall we?
We see people die everyday, and I am not talking about dying from hunger or thirst because that is a whole other issue. I am talking about people getting shot to death, bombed to death, slaughtered to death without an apparent reason. Not only killed, because there are also people who are suffering till date. They have lost these people who died, those who suffer from deep wounds. Who knows? Maybe they wish they would have died instead to end their pain.
Which leads me to this: Are we having a third world-war? I mean it's not happening in one country. It is all over the world and all of us are being affected. It has created a revenge that my words fail to discribe. In world war II, the USA chose nuclear weapons to strike back at Japan. Now it has created some sort of pay back system. This person (A) attacked (B) for no reason and had killed him. Now B's party/sect will have resentment on A's party/sect. And there you go, it is what we are facing. For belonging to a certian sect, I am innocent/ a terrorist/ a bad person, etc. I think that if a third world war is actually happening, all of the people -well, by all of people I mean the ones who are against terrorism- would probably have been united against it! I am afraid that another issue rises. Will those people rise in the right way? I mean without getting blind and also being drifted from the orginal cause. What is the right way? Being against the tyranny government who will end thier strikes and would opress them anyways? Get on their own path and ignore the government and be considered as 'out laws' then the media makes them look bad and after sometime they will exactly fit that discription.
Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? I hear people saying that we need a war, to make things right. Accordingly, we need it because it is the only way we can put an end to all wrong things that are happening. If so, and we are successful in putting an end to these things... Aren't we creating more damage? Will it be worth it? And how sure are we that we won't get ouselves in more mess than what we are already sinking in.
I realize this is one of the things we will only agree to disagree with. You believe that we need another one, I can not decide which one to choose although to be honest I dare say I am persuaded to believe that creating another war will not do much positive affect and so it'd be somehow pointless.
So are we living a third world war with out realizing it?
Does this question matter, think of the answers that I might get. Can we solve these issues that we are in without a fight or a war?

[llVoXll]

Yeah, I apologize I think I was a little too drastic 0.o

Somehow I still believe a war is a solution but perhaps not the most appropiate one as it has more negative issues than what I have ever imagined xP

Cheers,
Vox